Interview with Tom Green via telephone: April 15, 2000.
Tom said, "The difference between me and a drug dealer or car burglar is that I am not a threat to society. If I'm incarcerated, nothing will change in Snake Valley. The people living in that end of Juab County will be no safer."
There are two categories of laws: Malum prohibitum—the act is criminal because the legislature says so. And Malum en se, the act is bad in and of itself. Tom Green is being prosecuted because the legislature said polygamy should be a crime, not because the act of polygamy is bad in and of itself. The State of Utah enacted the Bigamy statute and permits the various counties to enforce the statute. The prosecutor in each county apparently has discretionary powers regarding the enforcement of the bigamy statute. Juab County has chosen to enforce the statute.
In Salt Lake County, Owen Allred, a confessed polygamist who is revered as a prophet, seer and revelator of over six thousand polygamists, like Tom Green, has gone on national television defending the practice of plural marriage, but Allred is not being prosecuted. James D. Harmston, leader of the True & Living Church in Manti, Utah has gone on television many times just like Owen Allred, confessing to be a polygamist. He has not been charged.
What is the difference between Owen Allred, Jim Harmston and Tom Green? Owen is the leader of the second largest polygamist cult in Utah. He presides as president of the priesthood over the theocracy of two incorporated polygamist cities, Pinesdale, Montana and the Town of Rocky Ridge, Juab County. Allred purports to be the one and only mouthpiece of God and collect tithing in God's name. Allred and Harmston accept donations and consecrations of any value—land, gold, real estate. Each believes he has the exclusive authority claimed by the LDS Church. Allred and Harmston give and take plural wives with impunity. In both groups there are men who are anti-Semite, racist, militant and anti-government. Allred takes tithing money and launders it into privately owned corporations. Both Allred and Harmston provide certain rituals (temple endowment etc.) purported to be indispensable to a celestial exaltation. They claim no other man on earth has that authority. Allred is the leader of a pseudo religious organization worth many millions of dollars. Harmston is a neophyte compared to Allred but is making headway merchandising his own brand of religion.
What about Tom Green? Does he make the same claims as Allred and Harmston? No! Tom presides only over his family and claims no prophetic authority. He is what is known in the polygamist subculture as an independent, he does not submit to any man claiming priesthood authority. He does not collect tithing, does not give or take wives. He has not organized a cult following. Although he and his family are struggling economically they have sufficient for their needs.
He claims that he has not exploited the welfare system like many other polygamists. The only time his family applied for welfare was after a fire when they lost their home, personal possessions and the life of an infant son. They were destitute, states Tom and his wives. They had no other choice but to apply for state assistance. Since then, and long before Mr. Leavitt charged Tom Green with felony criminal non support, Tom said in the company of an attorney and acting on his own volition, he had made arrangements to repay the welfare received.
Interview with Linda Green
Linda Kunz Green, age 28, the mother of six, hasn't changed in 14 years—she's still adorable, the picture of natural health and unafraid to speak her mind. Since Prosecutor David Leavitt filed criminal charges against Tom Green, she has defended her right to do her own thinking and speak for herself. Opponents of plural marriage, many of whom are delighted with the prosecution of Tom Green, have alleged that Linda was immature and too young at age 14 to consent to a marriage with Tom. And if she did give consent, then she must have been brainwashed or a victim of the Stockholm Syndrome.
Linda has taken every opportunity to dispute the assumptions of opponents who would love to make her an unwilling victim. But no matter how many times she passionately informs television and newspaper reporters that she was not, and is not now a victim, her vindication is ignored by those who would like to see Tom behind bars.
Linda's oldest son, Mel, dreams of being a pilot. This goal resulted from watching the F-16s from Hill Field practicing aerial maneuvers over
Snake Valley, Mel's desert home on the Utah-Nevada border. And according to Linda, Mel has the acumen to become a jet pilot. Mostly educated at home, intelligent tests indicate that Mel is academically two years ahead of his age group. In the last two years, Linda has been a teacher’s aid and substitute teacher at the West Desert School in Snake Valley. This fact tends to discard the notion that she and her sister-wives are illiterate and inadequately educated—an assumption that is further dispelled by the articulation of their television interviews.
Linda has traveled the breadth and length of the
United States. She has stood at Plymouth Rock, scanned Seattle from the Space Needle and lounged at the Florida Keys. Her children are no strangers to Disney Land. In other words, Linda has had opportunity upon opportunity to view and visit our great county outside of Snake Valley. She is not a victim of coercion or delusions. She has chosen the life of a Mormon fundamentalist. From studying her religion Linda knows who she is, where she came from, where she is going and is happy with her lot in life, except for the familial interference of government. Although young and pretty, a virtual effervescent fountain of charm, her ambitions are old fashioned but honorable. Linda wants to be a wife, mother and homemaker, a most noble occupation, and from this journalist's point of view, she's made an excellent start.
Interview with Beth Cook, Linda Green’s Mother
Beth Cook. As any mother would be expected to do, Beth Cook is protective of her daughter, Linda, as well as proud. Beth is willing to do whatever is necessary to see that Linda is not hurt. Beth was born into the polygamist cult of Short Creek, now known as Colorado City. At age 12 she was given as wife by the prophet Roy Johnson to an old man. Her little sister was a wife at age 9. This was not the rule, but the exception, she said. Giving children as wives, to her knowledge, no longer occurs. Nevertheless, her morbid experiences as a child bride have seriously impacted her life. Needless to say, Beth has led a tough stringent life, not by choice but by birth. In spite of the abuse she has received as a result of a child plural marriage, she still believes plural marriage is sanctioned by God. Beth stated that when Linda was 14, she was mature for her age and set in her mind. She wanted to marry Tom Green. Nothing could talk her out of it. So Beth consented and from her perspective it has been a successful marriage. At least Linda had a choice, Beth didn't.
Like June, the mother of LeeAnn and Shirley, Beth is not happy with the prosecution of Tom Green because of what it is doing to her daughter and grandchildren. Beth knows they are not victims. Beth also knows that the state is no substitute for a father or a mother. Tom Green, she asserts, is no threat to society and it is unfair to compare him with a burglar or car thief. She said Tom is a good father, he spends time with his children, he takes them places and they love him. It would be a disaster to the family and a tragedy for the children if he were put in jail.
Beth said, "I thought the state was supposed to protect families, not tear them apart. Whose egos are being satisfied by prosecuting Tom Green?"
Second Interview with Linda Green
I was born in Salt Lake City, Utah. I am a very proud, doting mother of six beautiful, well behaved, well adjusted children with morals and values. We divide up all of the responsibilities and housework between the ladies. Each lady has something that she is in charge of and it is her responsibility to make sure it gets done.
My responsibilities are Finances, Managing and organizing what everyone in the family will be doing, home schooling, and of course helping to clean the house and care for the children. Management , communication, cooperation, coordination, compromise — working together towards common beliefs and goals, and striving to do what is good for all involved as a whole—is the key to our successful relationships together.
I love teaching and working with children. I worked as a teacher's aide and substitute teacher. Learning is my passion. I love books, Shakespeare, Tolkien, Thoreau, Kipling and many more classics. I love music and movies. I love nature, backpacking, river rafting, trips to the ocean. We take our children to do these things with us. We've traveled back East several times, taking them to the arch in
St. Louis, Lincoln's home in Springfield, MO., Kennedy space center, Florida Keys, Disney world, Plymouth Rock. We've been to Mesa Verde national Park, hiked through the Grand Canyon, camped in Yellowstone National Park many times. We've taken our children to Disneyland several times.
We want to help our children to have educational and fun experiences in life. We want them to believe in themselves and know that whatever they want in life they can have if they work hard enough for it. We teach our children to follow the Golden Rule and have respect, love, and compassion for their fellow man. We teach each of our children to develop a personal relationship with God, and that he and no other person should be the one to tell them what is right for them and how they should live their lives. We teach our children that free agency is the most important principle. All people should have the right to choose for themselves the life they will lead and pursue.
My oldest son has been tested with an IQ of 168. He is home schooled and in recent tests at the public school scored several grade levels ahead of his age group (13). He wants to be a Jet pilot and we encourage him to pursue his dreams. We moved to
Snake Valley to get away from the prejudice and persecutions of our neighbors in Salt Lake City and to have a place where our children were free to be children and not be restricted by city walls and fences. Most of our fellow ranchers here are friendly and congenial and even invite us to participate and be a part of the community.
The other polygamists out here do not approve of us because we do not follow their "Prophet." We choose to be independent from a polygamist group and take our direction and guidance from God and we are looked down upon for it. We have plans to develop our property with trees, grass, landscaping, build a playground for the children with a shade roof to protect them from the sun and rain. We plan to have a courtyard in the center of all of our homes that is fenced so that our toddlers will be free to play and enjoy themselves. We are going to grow vegetables and herbs.
Our 25 children range in age from thirteen down to one year. Our thirteen- and twelve-year-olds are interested in and participate in high school sports such as basketball and tennis. We have computers available for our children. They are big into computer games such as Flying jets and Strategic war games.( Risk, Age of the Empires, Oregon Trail.) We take our children to see oldies concerts. They are big fans of the Beatles impersonators.
All of our boys are actively involved in Boy Scouts. My religious beliefs are very sacred and important to me. I believe men and women should have the right to choose for themselves to live whatever lifestyle that they want and to believe whatever religion they want. I chose to live my lifestyle and it has been a very happy fulfilling experience for me and I will fight to the end for my right to stay where I am and have my family together.
I would fight for that right to be upheld for anyone, no matter their religion, their race, or their sex. I would oppose and object to any person trying to tell another person what is right for them and how they should live. I just want to be able to live my life the way I believe it will make me the happiest regardless of society, and its opinions about my choice. After all this is
America isn't it? We should be free to live the way we believe and not be persecuted for it.
Interview with Shirley Green
I was raised in the small town of Short Creek Utah. My Father had several wives and many children. We were brought up in a staunch polygamist group and a girl grew up to know that she would have her husband chosen for her at the proper time. I, on the other hand, knew I would have a struggle ahead of me because I always felt that I had the right to choose and make my own decisions. I wanted to choose who I would spend the rest of my life with.
I don't believe in sex before marriage, it is immoral and ungodly. I grew up with a great love and respect for Plural Marriage and I carry a strong heart-filled testimony of it. I was just sixteen when I married Tom Green. I spent time in his home and fell in love with him. My family and community were against my decision and told me that if I married Tom I would go straight to HELL. I decided if my happiness was someone else's hell then they were not concerned about me and what I wanted. I was more capable of making the choice than they were.
My parents finally gave consent when they realized I was serious and was going to marry Tom with or without their blessing. We were married with a religious ceremony. I have never once regretted the choice I made fourteen years ago. I have had seven children and have been a mother to twenty-five.
Over the years Tom and I have gone through a lot together. We have traveled the world over. Our struggles have been plenty and our joy and happiness has been more. I am the second wife and I help with the everyday mothering of the children. I am in charge of making sure the family laundry is done, and I take my turn at cleaning and fixing the meals. We all share in everything there is to do. I have a disabled child who requires more of my attention. I have a close relationship with each of my sister-wives and we get along remarkably well. We always workout our differences in a civil manner.
Mr. Leavitt says that I am brainwashed into my lifestyle. Well I say, "Father, forgive him for he knows not what he speaks." He doesn't even know me or how I feel. Mr. Leavitt has caused me and my family more pain and suffering in the last year than Tom would ever dream of in the fourteen years we have been married. Tom is a good man and I will stand by his side 'till death do us part. My marriage covenants mean everything to me and no one can or should want to change that.
I fought to get Tom and I will fight to keep him.
Interview with June Johnson via telephone: April 26, 2006
Mother of Shirley and LeeAnn (LeeAnn moved out on her own after Tom was sent to prison)
June Johnson, age 50, mother of Shirley and LeeAnn Green, was three years old when Colorado City was raided in 1953. Very few people can remember events at the tender age three, but for June, the trauma she experienced that day was so sever that it will be forever imprinted on her brain. "Just before the Arizona deputies arrived, they gathered a bunch of us up and herded us up on a hill on the Utah side. My mother was with me. I knew something terrible was happening and was frightened to death. We all huddled together, looking down on the town. I remember seeing all the police cars. The deputies crowded the townspeople together, put them in cars and hauled them away. I knew my father was one of them.
"For years afterwards, I was scared to death of the police. In my mind, the police broke up families and homes. One day at age ten my friends and I saw a police car come into town. We were so frightened, we jumped into a ditch and crawled all the way home. "The day David Leavitt interrogated me I refused to give him any information. I told him why. Tom's kids love him. So does his wives. I wasn't going to give him any information that would help him take Tom away from his children. He got mad at me. His face turned red. He tried to get me to talk off the record. He said its not going to hurt you if you talk. I told him 'baloney, how do you think it will look to my grandchildren if I testify against their father.' I wasn't going to help him break up a family. He offered me immunity but I still wouldn't talk to him."
June's father is Warren Marshall Johnson, an old time resident of Short Creek, now renamed
Colorado City. It was June who gave LeeAnn consent to marry Tom. June said, "LeeAnn was 14 years old at the time and very determined to marry Tom. No one could discourage her. She caused all sorts of problems before she was allowed to marry Tom."
According to June, it was Jesse Beagley, father of both LeeAnn and Shirley, that gave Shirley, at age 15, permission to marry Tom.
Interview with Cari Green
I grew up out on the West Deserts of Utah, with the exception of a year or two of life in the big city, in California. I spent my Junior High years in Delta, Utah. Mom and Dad were married when Mom was 14 years old, so from the time I was very young I believed that it was OK for a young woman to get started building a family at an early young age. A lot of people out in the world can't understand how any girl can be ready for marriage at a young age. I believe it's a matter of how you are raised. The most important thing to me as I was growing up was knowing that I was free to make my own choices.
Dad always let me know that I had the right to choose for myself the way I would lead my life. Dad never hesitated in letting us kids know his beliefs in plural marriage. He taught us what he believed in. But at the same time he let us know from the time we were very young that there were many other choices out there. Dad took us to just about every church that is out there. We went to a different church just about every Sunday while we lived in California. And we took an active part in the young women's organizations in the LDS church in Delta. I always knew that no matter what choices I made in my life that my parents would respect that, and that I would have to be accountable for my own actions.
I am the 2nd to oldest in a family of 10. I was like the Mother of the house because my big sister turned out to be some sort of a rebel to the family following the life of a lot of the other teenage girls in high school. She set a good example for me of what the world had to offer: sneakin' out late at night, boozing and partying with the boys.
I always knew that I wanted a big family. That was my goal from as young as I can remember. I always wanted to be a part of a plural family. Knowing that that was what I wanted I always shied away from making too many friends in school, I was quiet and set back. None of those other kids fit my ideal for friends.
When I was in the 8th grade mom delivered a little boy two months early. He required a lot of medical attention that we couldn't get out on the west desert so we moved quite suddenly to Delta. When we moved I made the conscious decision that I was going to change. Nobody knew me and I could be anybody I choose to be. So I decided that I was going to play that role of "Cool".
It worked. I did my hair all up like all the other girls in school. I made up my mind to not be afraid to talk to anybody. And I let the guys know that I was interested. Within a month I was asked out. The guy was a jerk and I knew it so I declined and instead I asked another guy out. It turned into a courtship that lasted for two years. I let him know that I believed in plural marriage and he let me know that he did not. He cut the relationship off when he went on his mission for the LDS church with the intent to get together after he came back, if I still wanted to.
After he left I started dating with anybody that asked me out. Everybody else was doing it so that was the thing to do. I started sneaking out at night and doing anything that I could to be "Cool." I learned that that never made me happy. All it was was heartache between me and my buddies, a war of jealousy and deceit. I knew what I wanted out of life, and this was getting me nowhere.
When I was fifteen, my little sister and I were invited to got to
New York to a plural family to baby sit . On that trip I saw the perfect family, the one that I dreamt of having all my life. I saw a man who could care for and love each wife that he had and all the children that they brought into the family. They taught their children all the values and morals that I had been brought up to believe in. I fell in love, not just with the man, but with the family, with his children, and his wives. I became very close friends with his wives.
I knew that if I were in this family I wouldn't have to pretend anymore. I wouldn't have to look "cool" or dress fancy. I knew that all my friends would look down on me and they would think that I was crazy. I knew that I could even lose friends over the decision that I was making. None of that mattered to me. I knew that this family was where I belonged. I knew that in this family I could "have my cake and eat it too." I could be a wife and Mother and still be free to see the world and finish my education.
In all the 9 years that I have been married I have never regretted making the decision that I did. I admit that it was much more than I bargained for in the beginning. I have had my share of struggles and doubts. I've watched wives come and go in this family. I knew from day one that this was my decision. I knew that I was not stuck. I could leave whenever I wanted to. I've had offers from people to help me if ever I wanted to leave.
Nine years ago I made a decision based on my religious beliefs, based on the principle of Free agency. Every person has the right to choose for themselves how they want to spend the rest of their lives. Many people out in the world make the choice to have only one wife. Many have only one wife, yet have other relations on the side. Many men out there sleep around with young girls just to gratify their own lustful desires. They create children and abandon them.
So many girls in society as young as 12 years old are out there sleeping around creating children with others. They are out to have a good time. People tolerate this and accept it. "So they messed up. Oops, let’s get them on birth control so that doesn't happen again." It's OK with society that they are out screwing around. But when a young girl chooses a good man that will stand by her until death and be a father to her children and love her and cherish her, then they say, "that is wrong!" According to society NO young girl is capable of making a choice about marriage. It is ok to make the choice to have sex with some kid. But when she considers a man who will stand by her and make it last for life, they say she's just a brainwashed child who doesn't know any better.
Now I am in my mid-twenties, the mother of 29 children, (three of which I gave birth to). I handle the food for our family. I am the one responsible for the menu making, and food storage management. Until recently I was responsible for all the cooking and kitchen clean up as well. Now we all share in that end of the responsibilities.
The decision that I made to join this family has proved with time to be a good one. It works. I was able to finish my education and get my GED, I've been clear across the
US sightseeing and working. My children have had the same opportunity. With the help of my Sister-wives, (mothering my children) I have been able to take part in our community. More than two years ago I became a den mother for the Cub Scouts at the local LDS church. I spent a week away in training for that position. Also, I'm a member of the Local Volunteer Fire Dept and have gone through training for that.
With time I plan to expand my education, and get my EMT certification and become a certified midwife. We have plans to develop and expand our land and grow gardens and raise many animals. I have high expectations for our future.
God gave us all a divine gift when he gave us a chance to come down here to this earth. That was the gift of Free agency. Every man has the right to choose their own destiny. I don't hide my beliefs from anybody. I am a firm believer in what this family stands for. We strive day in and day out to instill morals and values into our children, We let them know that there are many different options out there in this world and they will have to decide one day which path they will lead. We don't shelter them from what the world has to offer. And we encourage them to explore all their options.
I am in Love with my family and I couldn't have chosen a happier lifestyle. God has blessed me in every aspect of the relationships in this family. If I was too young to make the decisions that I did, and If my decisions were so wrong, then why does it work so well???
John R. Llewellyn has appeared on Larry King Live, ABC Primetime, The Today Show with Matt Lauer & Katie Couric; NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw; Fox News Channel's "The Edge" with Paula Zahn; MSNBC; Inside Edition; Good Morning America, & is contacted frequently by local and foreign press.
Polygamy Under Attack – From Tom Green To Brian David Mitchell By John R. Llewellyn
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